A tense exchange unfolded on Piers Morgan’s show as Yusuf Tuggar, minister of foreign affairs, traded barbs with Goldie Ghamari, former Canadian member of parliament, over allegations of Christian persecution in Nigeria.
Tuggar appeared on the show, which aired Tuesday, to
challenge the claims, clarify figures, provide context, and address Nigeria’s
complex security challenge.
In the first 16 minutes of the interview, Morgan presented
figures from the International Society for Civil Liberties and Rule of Law
(Intersociety) claiming over 50,000 Christians have been killed in Nigeria
since 2009 and 18,000 churches destroyed.
Tuggar dismissed the figures as inaccurate and challenged
the religious framing, saying the government does not tally deaths by faith and
views all victims as Nigerians first.
When pressed for numbers, the minister went on to claim that
only 177 Christians were killed and 102 churches attacked in the last five
years in Nigeria.
The temperature went up a few celsius when Morgan brought in
Ghamari as a second guest.
The Canadian politician and talk-show host alleged that
Nigeria’s insecurity is a form of jihad, drawing a nexus with the October 7,
2023 Hamas attack on Israel.
She also cited the shared Islamic faith of President Bola
Tinubu and Vice-President Kashim Shettima as “evidence” of a complicit Islamist
government in the insecurity miasma.
“By the way, this is a government that is working closely
behind the scenes with the Islamic Republic of Iran. You should ask the foreign
minister why Nigerian school children are holding pictures of the Ayatollah who
is a brutal dictator and is murdering my people in Iran,” she said.
“People need to look into the linkages between the current
Nigerian government and the Islamic Republic of Iran.
“I was a politician for seven years, Piers, and I can tell
when someone is lying and avoiding the truth. That’s exactly what this foreign
minister is doing and shame on him for lying.”
‘YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO CANADA’
Tuggar called Ghamari’s comments a display of ignorance and
dismissed her speech as waffling.
He accused the former Canadian MP of sitting far away and
treating the lives of Nigerians like a game.
On Tinubu and Shettima’s faith, the minister said Nigerians
are more concerned with regional balance than religion. Tinubu is from the
southern region while Shettima hails from the north.
Asked by Morgan if he condemned the attack on Christians by
Islamist militants, Tuggar replied in the affirmative.
“I lost my father-in-law to an attack by an Islamic
terrorist group, Boko Haram, so I myself I’m a victim. I’ve lost family members
to attacks and they were Muslims,” the minister said.
“But it doesn’t matter whether they’re Muslim or Christian
because their aim is to kill, to maim, so that they would achieve their
objectives. And the number one enemy of Boko Haram is not a Christian. It is a
Muslim who does not subscribe to their own brand of Islam.”
Morgan turned to Ghamari with the minister’s submission for
a response. The politician said the killing of Muslims does not “negate the
fact that there is a targeted ethnic cleansing of Christians in Nigeria”.
“People like her trade in starting wars in far away places
where they have no contact, they have no understanding of, and they can do that
from their armchairs from a safe distance. It’s a real life situation,” Tuggar
said of Ghamari in response.
“This lady would not know the difference between a Fulani
man, a Tiv man, an Igbo man if they stood in front of her.
“But you can see clearly overnight because it pays. She’s
probably making money out of it. She is out there trying to start a war.
“They want to break up Nigeria the same way they broke up
Sudan and now they’ve run away. She’s not talking about Sudan anymore. She’s
not talking about South Sudan. I bet she was one of those that was agitating
for Sudan to be dismembered.
“This is what they do. This is what they try to do to
Africa. Nigeria is the largest country on the African continent. It is the
largest shock absorber to the African continent in terms of admitting migrants,
in terms of freedom of religion. It’s Africa’s largest democracy.
“But people like you who don’t really care about freedoms,
about the freedoms of either Christians or Muslims or Africans will continue to
agitate for the break up of Nigeria for war the same way that it’s happening in
South Sudan and you’ve kept mum because you’ve moved on.
“You don’t care about the loss of lives. For you, it’s just
another black country to be broken up. You don’t care who dies.
“It’s not going to happen to Nigeria. Move on to your next
project. You’re a disgrace. You’re a disgrace to the Canadian nation. I’m
shocked that you say that you actually practice as a politician in Canada. Move
on to the next episode. Leave us alone.”
Morgan ended the interview shortly afterwards.
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